Jesus Christ Existed Even Before Abraham

12/09/2017 0 Comments


Mr. Tumbok’s allegations posted on the eDebate with the topic, “Is Jesus Christ Man or God”:

“Now to Abraham and his Seeds were the promises made. He does not say, ‘And no seeds’, as of many, but as of one, ‘And to your Seed’, who is Christ.” (Gal.3:16, Ibid.)

Christ is the seed of Abraham, which is why it is wrong to assert that He existed before Abraham did. It is also worthy to note that nowhere in the aforecited pronouncement of Christ, which they use as proof of His alleged pre-existence and deity, did He say, “before Abraham was, I am God.” Why then did our Lord Jesus Christ say, “Before Abraham was, I AM”? Does this mean that He had pre-existence or that He had already existed even before Abraham was born? Apostle Peter enlightens us on this regard, thus:

“Foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, He has been manifested in the last times for your sakes” (I Peter 1:20, Douay- Rheims Version)

Even before the creation of the world, our Lord Jesus Christ was already foreknown by God. Hence, what was in the beginning with God was not Christ but God’s foreknowledge of Him. Apostle Peter proves this further through His testimony:

“Him [Christ], being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God…” (Acts 2:23, NKJV)

In other words, even before God created the world, He had already planned that there would be a Messiah or Christ. But there was no Christ yet in existence in the beginning, contrary to what the proponents of the Christ-is-God doctrine would like us to believe, for 
He came to exist only when He was born of His mother, Apostle Paul testified:

“But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law.” (Gal. 4:4, Ibid.)

I have highlighted the allegations of Mr. Tumbok to make them easily noticeable because they are the points that we are going to clarify from the Bible. The first allegation is:

“Christ is the seed of Abraham, which is why it is wrong to assert that He existed before Abraham did.”

According to Mr. Tumbok, it is wrong to assert that Christ existed before Abraham because He is a seed of the latter. Let us clarify this.

In what aspect does the Bible consider the Lord Jesus Christ as the seed of Abraham?

ROMANS 1:3 
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Note the descriptive term being used by the Apostle Paul, “seed according to the flesh”. Such term is used in the Bible to describe the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ, implying that before He was born in the flesh, He already existed in the spirit world. Remember, He was the One teaching the prophets of old by His spirit, which was in them.

1 PETER 1:10-11 
10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

“Which was in them” denotes His pre-existence. Notice the following verses:

ACTS 2:30 
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

ROMANS 9:4-5 
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

It is easily noticeable that concerning the flesh, and according to the flesh, Christ came from the Israelites in the lineage of David, who are descendants of Abraham. So, He is the seed of Abraham, according to the flesh; and concerning the flesh, but He was before Abraham, concerning the spirit. Thus, His quotation, “Before Abraham was, I am”.

Mr. Tumbok alleges that:

“Hence, what was in the beginning with God was not Christ but God’s foreknowledge of Him.”

This is the thinking of all people misled by Manalo, and the proponents of Christ is man- belief. Let us examine this in the light of what is really written in the scriptures.

Consistency in thought and senses is very much needed in understanding the ‘whole truth’ in the Bible. Anybody who will extract a verse out of the consistent thought of any given topic, is taking it out of context, and therefore, misleading.

From what topic of discussion the pronouncement of the Lord Jesus, “Before Abraham was, I am” was taken? Let us examine the topic.

JOHN 8:38-43 
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

JOHN 8:53-58 
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? 
54 Jesus answered, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. 
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

These discussions between the Lord Jesus Christ and the Jews are about the roots of the Jews and that of Christ. The Jews are claiming that they are children of Abraham; the Lord Jesus Christ telling them that He came from God the Father. If we are going to look closely on the aforementioned verses, Christ is disproving the allegation of these Jews that they are descendants of Abraham, and children of God. If they were of God, they should love Jesus because He came from God; if they are descendants of Abraham, then, they would do the works of Abraham. “Abraham rejoiced to see my day”, but the Jews sought to kill Him because they were not children of Abraham but, of their father — the devil.

JOHN 8:44 
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

What the Jews wanted to do to the Lord Jesus was not what Abraham felt when he saw His day.

JOHN 8:40 
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Abraham rejoiced upon seeing the day of the Lord Jesus, unlike the Jews trying to kill Him.

When Jesus said that, “Abraham rejoiced to see my day”, the Jews said, “Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?”, the Lord Jesus Christ exclaimed, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” The rule of logic and consistency of thought dictates that what our Lord Jesus Christ meant is that He existed before Abraham was — note the verb ‘was’.

In fact, in the New Living Translation (NLT), it says:

JOHN 8:58 (NLT) 
Jesus answered, “The truth is, I existed before Abraham was even born!”

And again, in the Living New Testament (LNT), it states:

JOHN 8:56-58 (LNT) 
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day. He knew I was coming and was glad. 
57 The Jewish leaders: You aren’t even 50 years old-sure, you’ve seen Abraham! 
58 The absolute truth is that I was in existence before Abraham was ever born!

Notice the following:

“I speak that which I have seen with my Father”
“I proceeded forth and came from God”
“Abraham rejoiced to see my day”
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am”

The consistent thought being expressed in the preceding pronouncements of the Lord Jesus Christ proves His pre-existence before Abraham was born. It is not just a ‘foreknowledge’ of God as Mr. Tumbok claims. Let us investigate his erroneous conclusion in the translation he used —the DOUAY-RHEIMS VERSION:

1 PETER 1:18-20 
18 Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as gold or silver, from your vain conversation of the tradition of your fathers: 
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb unspotted and undefiled, 
20 Foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but manifested in the last times for you,

In these verses, what was foreknown by God is not the being of Christ but, the redemptive power of the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb unspotted and undefiled. Of course, the blood of Christ does not yet exist before the foundation of the world because He was not yet born in the flesh, but existing in spirit. Likewise, the Apostle Peter is speaking of the same foreknowledge of God.

ACTS 2:23 (NKJV) 
Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death;

Note the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God speaks of the redemption that will be accomplished by the blood and death of Christ in the flesh.

Mr. Tumbok alleges that Christ only existed when He was born of His mother. This is what he said:

“…for He came to exist only when He was born of His mother, Apostle Paul testified:

“But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law.” (Gal. 4:4, Ibid.)

This claim of Mr. Tumbok is neither biblical nor scientific. Biblically and scientifically speaking, the existence of a man starts in the loins of his father.

HEBREWS 7:5 
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Let us examine what the Apostle said in Galatians 4:4.

But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

The verse did not say that our Lord Jesus Christ only existed when He was born of His mother as Mr. Tumbok claims. But a striking truth can be noticed by an open mind.

God sent forth His Son! He was sent because He came from God. He was sent because He came from heaven. When He came, a body was prepared for Him; which was born of the woman under the law.

JOHN 1:18 
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

JOHN 6:38 
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

HEBREWS 10:5 
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

These verses all denote the pre-existence of Christ before He came to earth.

Read the second part of the blog: Christ: The Wisdom of God

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Can a Homosexual Make It to Heaven?

12/02/2017 , 5 Comments

homosexuality and salvation

Going to heaven is an attainable thing — attainable even of the poorest of the poor!

LUKE 6:20-23 
20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. 
21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh. 
22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake. 
23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Lazarus, in the parable of the rich man, was able to make it to Abraham’s bosom: representing happiness in heaven with the Father.

LUKE 16:19-23 
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

To the contrary, the rich and the educated that trust in themselves and in their wealth can hardly make it to heaven.

MARK 10:23-24 
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

The rich are admonished by God to trust in Him, and not on their wealth to be worthy of the kingdom of heaven.

1 TIMOTHY 6:17-19 
17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded; nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Homosexuals have made it to the congress and the senate of my home country. The possibility of an empire having ruled by a homosexual is 100 percent.

Homosexuals are human beings. All human beings are product of God’s pro-creative power. What is attainable by ‘normal’ human beings (if homosexuals are considered by others as abnormal) can be equally attained by them also. But how about making it to heaven? The Bible has this to say:

1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-11 
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The verses made mention of ‘effeminate’ or homosexuals, and abusers of themselves with men, but they were accepted in the Church and sanctified through the power of God and the Spirit of Christ.

God wants all men to be saved.

1 TIMOTHY 2:4 (Revised Standard Version) 
…who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Many a pastor or religious leader of our time has erroneously associated homosexuality with sodomy. They mock homosexuals and condemn them to hell because Sodom was destroyed by God and appointed unto everlasting destruction; but a careful study of the scriptures will reveal to us that homosexuality is not sodomy and sodomy is not homosexuality.

Sodom and Gomorrah were not the only cities destroyed by God as many perceived. Actually, there are more cities surrounding Sodom and Gomorrah that were brought by God to destruction.

JUDE 1:7 
Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The verse says that these cities — including Sodom and Gomorrah, have given themselves to fornication and have gone after strange flesh.

STRANGE?

Yes, because they have, in their lust, ‘left the natural use of women and burned in their lust one towards another, men with men, and women with women’! THESE ARE NOT HOMOSEXUALS. Homosexuals, in their desire, do not lust with women. Although a homosexual does it with a man, he does not do it with a woman. These people of Sodom and Gomorrah are not homosexuals, but perverts. The parallelism was mentioned by Jude. Observe the two verses:

JUDE 1:6-7 
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The ‘angels’ mentioned by Jude left their ‘own habitation’ and kept not their first estate, even as Sodom and Gomorrah have left the ‘natural’ and turned into strange flesh. What did these angels do, prompting God to condemn them into eternal fire?

GENESIS 6:1-7 
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. 
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

These sons of God who took the daughters of men as wives are angels! Angels are called in the Bible as ‘sons of God’ singing with joy during the laying of the foundation of the world, when there were no human beings yet.

JOB 38:4-7 
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Some of these angels sinned against God when they left their first estate and habitation, and mingled with humans, and have produced a hybrid called ‘giants’ in the days of Noah. These angels are the spirits that were imprisoned, to whom Christ, when He died, visited and to whom He heralded His victory over evil, according to Peter.

1 PETER 3:18-20 
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The word ‘preached’ used by Peter is ‘kerusso’ in Greek, which means to herald.

kērussō
kay-roos’-so

Of uncertain affinity; to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel): – preach (-er), proclaim, publish.

(Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries Dictionaries of Hebrew and Greek Words taken from Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance by James Strong, S.T.D., LL.D., 1890.)

As angels can lust with daughters of men, men of Sodom and Gomorrah, because of their overwhelming lust, have sought the angels who visited Lot and wanted to have sexual knowledge of them! These are men, and the angels who visited Lot, also, have male human forms.

GENESIS 19:1 (New International Version) 
The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground.

GENESIS 19:4-8 (New International Version) 
4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 
5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.” 
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 
7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 
8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.

These men of Sodom and Gomorrah are not homosexuals, but perverts! If there are people being condemned by God because of sexual addiction, they are not the homosexuals, but real men and women (if we can call them real) who, because of their sexual perversions, may do ‘it’ with the opposite and the same sex!

ROMANS 1:26-27 (New International Version) 
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

There are decent and God-fearing homosexuals. Although, naturally, they have affection for men, but they practice self-control to obey God’s law!

TITUS 2:11-12 (New International Version) 
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 
12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live selfcontrolled, upright and godly lives in this present age,

Can these decent and God-fearing homosexuals make it to heaven?

I BELIEVE THEY WILL!

God bless.

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